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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:16 am 
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I wonder what would happen if Tyr died from the infection...


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:31 am 
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Bowman Gavin wrote:
I wonder what would happen if Tyr died from the infection...


Well...you'll be wondering for a long time, because she's not going to. LOL


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:36 am 
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You mean they find a cure for the virus? *phones his bookie to cancel all bets* The plot got less interesting with no main characters at risk of dying from it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:19 am 
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Bowman Gavin wrote:
You mean they find a cure for the virus? *phones his bookie to cancel all bets* The plot got less interesting with no main characters at risk of dying from it.


I've put years into Tyria's character; I'm not about to kill her off! I think it's pretty much a given that our main characters won't die, so I don't think it's all that shocking. ;-)

The plan all along has been that a cure will be found.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:11 am 
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Whilst I totally agree that our main characters are unlikely to die, seeing as we've all invested so much, I think Gav has a point. OK, so I killed Asha and Locker, gained a son etc... But the good guys, I.e. us, always come out the victor.

Now, since this is our plot, it's understandable... However, I think we should really rethink things for 17. Perhaps we've gotten stale? This plot certainly isn't moving as fast as I thought it would. Whilst I appreciate RealLife gets in the way sometimes, perhaps we should have consideration for something new? Whilst I'm not advocating anything like the Vong, perhaps we should consider a change?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:35 am 
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I think, if I may be honest - 16 was the whole '24' thing, and I think that besides real life that sort of fast paced style may not have been a good fit for the group, since there is an overarching sense that "there is a plot line established that we have to follow."

While I don't feel completely controled by that sense, it does create a sense that the good guys have to win and the plot is pre-determined.

Just putting that out there - I think if we went back to more open style in 17, folks might feel more freedom to write.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:41 pm 
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Octavia Terah wrote:
I think if we went back to more open style in 17, folks might feel more freedom to write.


I think that's very true. Also, since we're only in the "fourth hour" of the storyline, there is the almost overwhelming realization that we cannot end it too soon, since we have 20 hours left to go. That makes it harder because I'm realizing that, at least for me, it takes a lot more creativity to be able to "fill up" soooo much time, while at the same time not being over the top with the events that take place.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:46 pm 
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The Face wrote:
Whilst I totally agree that our main characters are unlikely to die, seeing as we've all invested so much, I think Gav has a point. OK, so I killed Asha and Locker, gained a son etc... But the good guys, I.e. us, always come out the victor.

Now, since this is our plot, it's understandable... However, I think we should really rethink things for 17. Perhaps we've gotten stale? This plot certainly isn't moving as fast as I thought it would. Whilst I appreciate RealLife gets in the way sometimes, perhaps we should have consideration for something new? Whilst I'm not advocating anything like the Vong, perhaps we should consider a change?


What is "the Vong"?

I guess when I said that "main" characters won't die, I was really referring to the characters that are actually "played" by people (plus Wedge, since it would be nothing short of sacrilege if Wedge were to die, LOL. Rogue Squad w/o Wedge would just not be right). "Main" NPCs (like Locker, Asha, etc.) are kind of always up for getting killed off.

The only problem with that is the fact that we decided that this plot would only involve characters that are played by people, so we don't have any NPCs to kill off.

Should we perhaps abandon the "24" idea and try to open it up more? Maybe that might speed things up and we wouldn't have such long lulls in plotting.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:50 pm 
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I'm glad we're having this discussion. Personally, I've been having a hard time coming up with ideas and getting motivated to shove other things aside and take time to write (which, while fun, is also important for maintaining my creativity and writing skills). Frankly, most of the ideas I come up with (on almost a daily basis) are for Plot 17. And I've gotten the impression from other writers that they're having issues, too. It's great when we can take a step back and look at our handiwork and see what's working and what's not.

Let me throw some random ideas (some inspired by my discussion with Gav last night) out there that might spur some inspiration:
1. Have an event "speed up the clock," giving us a less (and possibly undetermined) amount of time left before the station crashes.
2. Have us lose. We don't all die, but our actions (accidental mistakes or unintended consequences or self-preservationism or downright stupidity) cause the plague to get released, unleashing a deadly force on the galaxy that we're partly responsible for and have to deal with in Plot 17.
3. Have a main character not die (because it's hard to see anyone giving up their character in the Plot because these are the ones we've invested so much into unless someone really does want to start anew) but have them get severely injured, captured, put into stasis, or sent away (good opportunity for a side story). Basically, they'll be out of the picture long-term, and the writer will have a fresh, new character to work with. This is an idea that could work in any plot if you wanted to have your main character set aside (if you want to keep them close, they could still be part of the task force) for a while while you tried something new.
4. Rather than just "speeding up the clock," have some massive, mind-blowing twist in the plot that completely turns our perceived idea of where this is going on its head. This could be done by a group decision or by one brave writer taking the initiative and hoping he/she doesn't get chased by an angry RS mob. Personally, I'd prefer the latter because I like surprises or might be tempted to do it myself.

It really comes down to our ability to "let go." If we're not willing to let go of the ideas that "this has to happen" or "this can't happen to my character" or "this will ruin someone else's plan for what happens next even though I have no clue if such plan exists," then we will restrict ourselves and lock ourselves into seemingly predetermined storylines. Heck, I'd be willing to kill off Corran or have him go away for a very long time if it opened up possibilities that got me excited about writing.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:00 pm 
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1. Have an explosion rock the station further into a downward trajectory?

2. I still think someone should die. That way if the plague becomes the story for 17, then it's much more "closer to home" rather then "we've been called into clean up this mess".

3. Agreed. They don't -have- to die per se, but if we did something like: No cure has been found by the end of 16, Tyr's getting worse, the only option to prevent her from dying is to put her into bio-stasis. Or someone snaps and turns on their comrades... If we did the stasis thing with Tyr, the bonus for that would be the opportunity for a "Tyr's Revival" plot later...

4. No ideas at this time.


Last edited by Bowman Gavin on Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:03 pm 
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Colonel Tyria Sarkin wrote:
What is "the Vong"?


http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Yuuzhan_Vong

Nasty invaders that shook up the whole galaxy in the books. Think of them as the Borg of the Star Wars universe. Without the people-assimilation.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:24 pm 
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I think some of the GH/Gav ideas might be good ones. For a wide variety of reasons, many of which are mentioned already in this thread, 16 isn't working out quite like we'd hoped, I think, and I suspect that perhaps a majority of the people on this forum feel hesitant to plot on it. I like idea 2, personally, and think we could stand to lose a few now and then. Besides, if these COMPNOR agents are really Rogue/Wraith quality (and they certainly have the upper hand right now!), they're probably working on getting the station crashed that much sooner!

Also, I think that a general discussion of plot-iquette might be in order. I know from conversations with a few people here that many writers are loathe to write any characters but their own, for fear that they might do something wrong/mess up a grand scheme/offend somebody. I'd like to build on GH's last paragraph and pose a few suggestions:

  1. We've grown up.
    Turns out, after 11 years on the web, most of us in the group are 11 years older than when we started. I can recall a time when the forum(s) were almost typified by squabbling about who was right about what, and who couldn't do what with who, and so on. I'd suspect that all of us older members are likely guilty of it at some point, either on the main forum or one of its offshoots. Most of those, though, happened a long time ago.

    My suggestion? Stop worrying that you'll offend somebody. While a lot of these characters are as old as our members and just as dear, I would suggest that any of us that can't handle seeing our character in the hands of another author probably has a little soul-searching to do outside these walls. If that's you, speak up and declare your character off-limits, or better yet, kill off your character and start over with a new face that's a little less wrapped up in your own developmental years.

  2. If you have some secret plan for your character, say so.
    Sometimes people get a great idea for a fun surprise ending for their character(s) in a given plot. It's great, and those arcs are always fun reads. If you want to do something like that, though, speak up! If everyone but Face is afraid to touch not only Face, but half of the Wraiths, all of Firestorm, the Sacul, and the greater denizens of the black market because they think that Face might have a secret plan for all of the above that's going to be ruined if they have Face speak so much as a line in their plot, it kills the group dynamic. Now, I pick on Face because I think he's generally pretty good about it, but a good way to approach something like this would be to give as clear an idea as possible of who you need when, so that people can plan around it (use the wiki!). While it might ruin some of the fun, it will help other authors, and especially new authors, feel more free to write something other than "my character is pensive/happy/scared/in horrible, mind-rending pain right now."

  3. Be Bold!
    In my view, group writing is a lot more fun when people take your character and give a helping hand in their development. I suspect that is a large part of why Deven's books are so enjoyable, perhaps second only to the fact that the man is simply an amazing writer. ;) Working together to create an end-product is a lot of fun, and I, for one, have really enjoyed the sense of "read, react" that I've got from 16. In the absence of a real set story, almost everything I've written has been in reaction to someone else's idea, and that's been a lot of fun for me. The whole experience will be more fun for everyone, I think, if we're all allowed to be free with almost everything.

Something Gemmer suggested to me a few months ago is that we'd all be likely to have more fun if we ended these plots completely and started a new one using the world we've created, with characters that are perhaps a bit less like superheroes. His idea was that we'd generate a pool of characters (probably a squadron), and no characters would "belong" to anybody, and they'd all be just as likely to die as the next guy. People die, we make up a replacement, and we move along. We could write cameos from our old super-hero characters, but they'd be movie-star quality; we wouldn't get to see them often, or for long. I'm not necessarily suggesting this as an immediate action, but it was definitely an interesting idea.

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Last edited by Dru Kargin on Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:43 pm 
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Frankly, I've hit the point where I have no idea of what to do with Red - so anyone who wants to work with her is welcome to! I was very glad when Az actually used her in one of his plots, esp. re: the lack of directive in my own mind for her.

I would have to agree with some of the above suggestions:

1. Loosing some time would be a good way to jump ahead, I think. I just don't sense another 20 hours of desire from the group.

2. Loosing this battle/loosing a person/having people shuffled away might not be a bad idea. We could then maybe work on developing some side characters (maybe some of the characters from the planet who are infected?) if that would be a way to kickstart the creative juices?

Just my two cents - I really enjoyed the last bit I worked on with Dru/Theran/Halley/Az - but to be honest I am ready to move on from this plot.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:03 pm 
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And I've got Brya waiting on the sidelines for the first opportune moment.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:20 pm 
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To echo Red a bit, everyone is welcome to write Dru, as well. I have one sideplot planned for him that would hopefully take place between 16 and 17, but even that's not set in stone. I'm also happy to chat with you (shoot me a PM on the forum here if you don't have AIM or gmail) if you want to know how I think he might react to something, but I also always enjoy seeing another author's take on him. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:29 pm 
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If this were really 24, the virus on the station would only be the pretext for a much grander eviler plot to start a war and take over the universe or something..


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:11 pm 
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I have a question...

Is there already a semi-blueprint for Plot 17? As people are alluding to it, and like with GH mentioning his ideas he's coming up with are more for Plot 17, I have to wonder. 'Cause if there is, I'd like to know so I can be thinking of things, too. :-)

I will write more later on GH's and Dru's ideas...right now I have to be somewhere so I have to go. :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:32 pm 
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I also feel that i should jump into this discussion.

The only real plans i have for Theran are that he needs to get a droid arm an eye (just silver looking, no crazy red dots). But aside from that, i don't really have anything. This plot is just super hard to think up stuff for, probably cause i'm new and have never seen '24'. However i'm willing to toss my character up on the chopping block for death if need be, i haven't put a whole lot into him and it would be pretty easy for me to make a new one.

But looking back on the previous posts, i like the speeding up time idea or us losing the most. I'm also open to others writing my character, i'll take any help i can get :D cause i can't think of anything to write.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:18 pm 
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Dru Kargin wrote:


Something Gemmer suggested to me a few months ago is that we'd all be likely to have more fun if we ended these plots completely and started a new one using the world we've created, with characters that are perhaps a bit less like superheroes. His idea was that we'd generate a pool of characters (probably a squadron), and no characters would "belong" to anybody, and they'd all be just as likely to die as the next guy. People die, we make up a replacement, and we move along. We could write cameos from our old super-hero characters, but they'd be movie-star quality; we wouldn't get to see them often, or for long. I'm not necessarily suggesting this as an immediate action, but it was definitely an interesting idea.



This is exactly what I had in mind whilst writing Guess Who's Coming to Dinner Squadron. I wanted a group of characters that I could kill off at any time that may be interesting but I don't claim any rights to in terms of being "my" characters.

I think the fact that so many side plots have sprung up during the course of Plot 16 so far means we all feel a bit overwhelmed by the thought of writing up 20 more hours. My recent High Flight side plot was meant for Plot 17 but that just seemed so far away I had to put it up. Most of the story I wrote over a year ago anyway.

Speeding up time works for me, or just starting Plot 17 and retconning as we go for Plot 16. After all, didn't Plots 14 and 15 exist simultaneously for a brief time?

At this point, I have no specific plans for Drake in Plot 16. I can't have him break out of his interrogation any time soon and I can't have the LOEAI come to the rescue as they once did :wink:


And a note to Theran. I think you're one of the few writers currently who isn't afraid to have your character get pushed around and sacrificed. Isn't his eye already hanging out of its socket? I think we can all take a lesson from you on risk-taking with our characters.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:12 pm 
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As far as I know, there is nothing close to a solid idea for 17 yet. There has been discussion regarding whether or not the plague could be used as a central plot-point, but that's all as far as I know.

As for two "chapters" being written at the same time, I can't remember which two they were, but one of them was being used as a "downtime" between two story lines.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:28 pm 
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Bowman Gavin wrote:
As for two "chapters" being written at the same time, I can't remember which two they were, but one of them was being used as a "downtime" between two story lines.


I believe it was 14 and 15.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:59 pm 
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Ya, doing Plot 14 and 15 at the same time didn't work out much as intended. Plot 14 basically became a giant side plot I wrote with a few other writers, and the real concentration by RS was on Plot 15 (which was awesome). I'd much rather make Plot 16 great then try to do Plot 17 at the same time. And while writing 16, you can always be poking around with a side plot for your character. I've been mentally working on one for a while that involves GH and the Force and happens before Plot 16. I say mentally because it's basically what at lot of my ideas that pop up at random times of the day work for.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:49 am 
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Ooooo, I hope that story gets "published" here soon, 'cause I'd love to see what went on with good ol' Cranberry and the Force once he lost it and stuff!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:54 am 
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Gavin kills him first :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:00 am 
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LOL Very funny. I'm not banking on that, since GH is alive in Plot 16, and he just said his story he's thinking of happens prior to Plot 16.

Nice try. ;-)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:04 am 
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16d wrote:
Of all the times to use the Force, this would have been good, why won’t it call to me?


There's still time. :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:19 am 
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Hmmm...

Much to think about. But if I may take a few comments and add my tuppence worth...

  • Plot 16 isn't working, that much is obvious, and as far as I'm concerned I have no far reaching plan either for the end of 16, or 17, or any thereafter!
  • I agree that something should happen to speed things up. Give us less time to work with.
  • Whilst I agree that character deaths are important to the plot, I personally would find it hard to give up Face, and I'd imagine a lot of people would feel the same with their 'main' characters. We've invested a LOT of time and wiki pages into creating them, and to throw them away would be a very difficult decision to make.
  • Have a main character 'shuffled off' to the side is a good idea. Like Halles has semi-done with Halley and Drake. Gives a chance for new characters. Perhaps not necessarily anything as drastic as bio-stasis, but just have them sit on the sidelines for a bit?
  • Going back to Dru's point... I am well aware of the amount of characters that I 'control' in the plot! However, I hope that no-one feels worried about using any of them! I think I've done a pretty good job of fleshing them out enough so other people can use them (I LOVE Ran writing for Face, he does it better than me most time!). Also, I've spent a lot of time on (Face's in particular) wiki pages, so if there's something you don't know, you can easily look it up. The PlotPedia is a great tool, and we should use it! *looks at a certain fellow Colonel who's wikipage is empty!*
  • It's worth noting that for a brave individual, there's a Rogue place free, and possibly a Wraith place too...
  • I'm going to disagree with Gemmer's idea, of setting up a whole new squadron full of characters that are 'killable'. Technically, that's what we were supposed to do with HighFlight and Firestorm! But by ditching our current squad, we just won't care as much. Also, it would feel like starting over AND there would be the whole, not-knowing issue. i.e., I don't know the NewDru character at all, so how can I write him/her/it?

So, here's a plan. We bring back the Empire. Not necessary the Emperor and Vader, and not the Imperial Remnant, but the Empire! Have the plague escape, have us have to clean it up (but not plotting it, takes too long and is boring). Have this take a year or so... and in this time, the Empire (under Zak?) has managed to rebuild itself, and takes over the galaxy once more. We're not the New Republic, we're the Rebel Alliance. The Krayli's Valour and The Sacul are all we have, and we have to fend for ourselves at the same time as fight the Empire?



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:53 am 
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Sounds like we should get a poll going in order to get some clear votes on options!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:56 am 
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Quote:
Whilst I agree that character deaths are important to the plot, I personally would find it hard to give up Face, and I'd imagine a lot of people would feel the same with their 'main' characters. We've invested a LOT of time and wiki pages into creating them, and to throw them away would be a very difficult decision to make.


*nods* ITA.

Quote:
I'm going to disagree with Gemmer's idea, of setting up a whole new squadron full of characters that are 'killable'. Technically, that's what we were supposed to do with HighFlight and Firestorm! But by ditching our current squad, we just won't care as much. Also, it would feel like starting over AND there would be the whole, not-knowing issue. i.e., I don't know the NewDru character at all, so how can I write him/her/it?


Yes, that is exactly how I feel!

Also, as far as your Empire idea, and with us becoming the Rebel Alliance again? LOVE it! I absolutely LOVE it! Hehe, instead of the Imperial Remnant, it'd be like the New Republic Remnant. *G*

A good thing about that idea, too, is that it means we'd lose something. As in, we'd be on the losing end of the war, basically. Thus showing that we don't always win everything. But we'd come away from it, still strong, and still determined to make things right.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:15 am 
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The Republic Remnant idea sounds awesome, but would take some explaining as to how that happened. Isn't the republic the dominant force in the galaxy around this time? So how would the Galactic Empire (probably?) obtain a large enough force of Star Cruisers and Fighters to defeat the Rebels. My best bet, would probably be an outlying secret shipyard along the lines of Kuat or Fondor that has been building fighters and Cruisers since the battle of Endor. Or perhaps they just had more Star Cruisers than Rebel Intelligence thought, and a unnamed at this time Admiral/Moff/Grand Admiral has be slowly bringing the scattered Imperial fleet together.

Wow, I just went from barely awake to wide awake and excited after reading Tyr post...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:12 am 
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Here's a thought... Has anyone seen 'V For Vendetta'? If not, it's an awesome film, but there's a storyline we could steal. Basically, Britain becomes a facist government after a group of people (secretly) create and release a plague. Once there's widespread panic, they reveal the cure, and on the strength of that, get voted in!

This way, The Empire take over really quickly, back it up with a tonne of warships, and we, on the outside have to take our little Task Force and try and 'strike back'.

Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:09 pm 
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The Face wrote:
Thoughts?


Sweet!

Could even tie it in with 16, obviously...perhaps COMPNOR is actually working for the Imperial group...and the plan has never been to actually crash the station...it's just been to release this plague.

And perhaps that's why they are soooo suspicious and upset with the fact that our group is there...they know we're NR, and they know Face specializes in reconaissance, and thus they suspect that we're actually there on a "fact-finding mission" - they think that the NR suspects something and has sent Face and Co. in to investigate.

Maybe? I dunno. Just a thought.

AHHHHH this is getting so exciting!


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The transition from 16 into a Imperial-dominated galaxy in 17 could be done simply with a X-time after the incident aboard the station and a paragraph with some back story.

EDIT: And have the opening scene be a damaged Sacul fleeing a pair of Star Destroyers. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:08 pm 
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Well going off the idea that there is already a faction inside the Rebel command trying to overthrow it, we could be branded traitors of the state along with other Rebel officers like Ackbar, Page and Cracken. I dunno, i was kinda thinking along the lines of Order 66.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:15 pm 
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Eh, we already did something like that... plots 10, 11, and I think 12.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:09 pm 
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Theran Rel wrote:
Well going off the idea that there is already a faction inside the Rebel command trying to overthrow it, we could be branded traitors of the state along with other Rebel officers like Ackbar, Page and Cracken. I dunno, i was kinda thinking along the lines of Order 66.


A faction inside the Rebel command? Did I miss something?

And as Bowman said, it does sound similar to something we've done previously.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:10 pm 
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Ahh, plots i haven't read yet. I'm still trudging through plot 4.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:14 pm 
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Just to clarify something quick, I'm not suggesting the "new squadron" plot as a replacement for the original. More just an experiment that might be interesting to try sometime. :)

Also, a quick idea about the galactic change:

Suppose Zak's defection (to the NR) was a ruse all along, and he used some of his time to buy some agents on Coruscant. They've been busy. This plague is a smoke screen first, and a bargaining chip later. The plague hits anywhere and everywhere they can get it, especially the big colonies. Coruscant is hit by a massive strike from within: not a political plot, but a coup in force. Significant factions of the military change sides, and the government -- maybe right up to to the Chief of State -- have been bought out. Important figures in the military who won't be bought might just be straight assassinated (less of a liability than locking them up!). With Coruscant in chaos (and the Imperials winning) and the rest of the galaxy reeling from the plague, Zak would then be in a position to start trading vaccines for allegiance, especially with an aggressive disease like this one.

That's something that could happen -- or at least advance considerably -- in the week or so that our characters might have been out of the loop.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:04 pm 
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Dude. I like it!


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