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 Post subject: Rogue Roster
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:30 am 
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ROGUE SQUADRON ROSTER
Now brought to you by plotpedia.com


Last edited by General Corran Horn on Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:30 pm, edited 13 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:02 pm 
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Roster updated for Plot 15.

Zak and Rillao are now MIA.

Jesmin Ackbar takes Rillao's place as Wedge's wingmate.

Hayden Krah takes Zak's place as Leefa's wingmate.

Ryle Tizaak has moved from the Space Lounge and now shares quarters with Hayden in the Tech Den.

Zak no longer shares quarters with Leefa.

Rillao has left her quarters vacant in The Yellow Submarine.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:45 pm 
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Corran...

Far be it from me to comment, but shouldn't the Rogues run in order? There's ample evidence in the books that callsigns change regulary. It makes sense (especially in a military arrangement) to know that Rogue Two is Rogue Leads wingman...

If another squadron was flying with the Rogues, they'd automatically assume that Ailie was in charge of Two Flight (or what ever they're called) because the Flight Leaders are traditionally Lead/One, Five and Nine.

So, according to any other squadron, they'd think the callsigns mean the flightgroups are...

Corran with Adorni
Wes with Tyria

Ailie with Leefa
Moor with Halley

Hayden with Taz
Jesmin with Deven

If Halley says something like "Rogue 8 - My wingman's been shot, someone help him", then everyone's looking for Moor, and poor old Deven gets ignored!

If you want to leave the numbers all jumbled up, then fair enough... but it doesn't make sense (to me) from a military perspective OR from evidence from the Star Wars books.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:58 pm 
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I was actually thinking about that myself; like each flight should be a group of succeeding numbers, i.e., one flight is Rogues 1-4, another is 5-8, and the last is 9-12. I agree with you...it makes more sense that way.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:10 pm 
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*nods* That's the way Wraith and Firestorm are. It's just simpler that way. :)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:14 pm 
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Yes, that's actually what started me thinking about it - I looked at the Wraith Roster and saw all of them in order by number, and I just thought it made more sense than being jumbled. As for the Rogue Roster...I wouldn't mind not being Rogue 4 if numbers ended up being switched around.

I'd rather all be in order than keep my current number, actually. Hehe, having some slight OCD tendencies, the idea of the Roster having the squad members listed out in the organized fashion of numerical order is enough to make me almost giddy with delight. *G*


Last edited by Colonel Tyria Sarkin on Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:17 pm 
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Perhaps you should go sit down! What with reordering Flight Groups, and a proposal in the air... I think you need to rest before you hyperventilate!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:21 pm 
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I think perhaps maybe a cup of hot tea will soothe my nerves. ;)

It doesn't help that my family and I have become addicted to the television show <i>24,</i> which totally re-invents the word "suspense" and leaves you with a cliffhanger every episode. We've been watching it on DVD, and we watch two episodes per night, and are always left gasping with shock and clamoring for the next one.

At any rate...I hope you get the plot up <i>soon</i> where Asha answers. And I do hope you make her say yes. If she turns him down, that would be Very Sad. :cry:

As for reordering the call signs...one does hope. :D


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:23 pm 
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I've already got the next bit half written... but I'll need to leave it hanging for a bit to build up the suspence!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:24 pm 
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Ahhhh!

You slay me!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:29 pm 
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Yup! Glad to know that my writing is appreciated!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:31 pm 
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Never as appreciated as it will be when you post the story containing Asha's answer. ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:58 pm 
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Hehe, wow, you guys are post chatting.

Numbering the pilots in order of their flight groups and wingmates makes sense. In actuality, I had never paid attention to the callsign numbers in the novels before, so didn't realize there was a particular method to their madness.

Though making Tyr giddy isn't an appealing result ;-)

See Downtime topic on 24.
http://www.erality.com/sites/rs/board_2 ... 6406#16406


Last edited by General Corran Horn on Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:59 pm 
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If I promise to contain my giddiness over switching the callsigns so that they're in order, can we do it? :D


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:12 pm 
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As long as I hear no giggling.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:13 pm 
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General Corran Horn wrote:
As long as I hear no giggling.


I swear on my Jedi Knighthood, you will not hear even the slightest hint of a giggle from me.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:16 pm 
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Make her swear on her Colonelship... might be more fun if we make her giggle! :)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:50 pm 
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I swear on my Colonelship.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:49 am 
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Callsign numbering changed.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:53 am 
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Yay!

*is not giddy*

*is not giggling*

*is asking a question*........

Does my flight group get to be the Femme Fatales? 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:55 am 
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Actually, I just realized another question. According to Halley's story...isn't his character leaving RS for a time? I mean, he accepted that position Ackbar offered him to run his own squad, didn't he?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:08 am 
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Halley will be flying with the Rogues during Plot 15.

As for naming your FG the Femme Fatales, keep in mind that it's a very gender specific name, and Jesmin is high on the to-be-killed list in order to make room for new characters.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:10 am 
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Oh, poor Jesmin. :cry:

Yes...it's gender specific...but could the new character be a female? :D If not...group could be renamed. If a guy doesn't feel bad being outnumbered in a flight group of three women. ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:14 am 
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You can have that name if you can't think of a better one ;-)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:24 am 
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It's better than Insanity Flight!

Besides, it was Wedge's idea, after all. ;)

Honestly, at the moment, I can't think of a better one. Since it is the first flight group led by a woman, not to mention the first flight group of all women, I'd like there to be something about that in the name.

I personally do like the Femme Fatales, but...there could be other options...

Perhaps just simply, "Les Femmes," or something, hehe. I just would really like, if it's okay, for the name to reference the historic fact that it's the first all women/woman led FG.

But I mean, if you're totally not wanting that, I can try to come up with something else that doesn't reference that.


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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:47 am 
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As you can see, the Rogue Roster has now entered the 21st century and is on plotpedia.com.

You'll also notice a slight change to the skill sets for characters. Each skill is worth one point. A +star designation denotes expertise and is worth an additional point. Number of points allowed for each character is denoted by rank. Imperial defectors keep their skills from previous rankings, even if their new Rogue rank is lower.

If you have too many points for your characters, nix a skill or +star that you haven't ended up using for your character. If you have too few, you don't have to fill your character up with a new set of skills right away. Skills take time to learn and can be good plotting elements. I've also added the skill of Commanding, specified Weapons to be small arms and non-blasters, and changed Insurrection to Intelligence.

For more details, check out the new RS Roster.


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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:08 am 
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Would a lightsaber be included under the "Weapons"? If so, may I then give Tyria a "+" on her Weapon listing? I'm pretty sure she has some "free points." :)


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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:13 am 
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OK... what skills donates Blaster Pistols then?

Also, Stealth and Undercover are two very different skill sets, one is sneaking around, the other is portraying a character. So, Void will be GREAT at Stealth, but poor at undercover work!

Additionally, you're making the only way pilots can increase their skill is to increase their rank. And, to be honest... the average rank in RS is too high to be realistic as it is! In reality, RS should have one General (CO) one Colonel (XO), maybe two Captains, and the rest as Lt's and FO's. If someone wants their character to progress, they HAVE to gain a rank... which'll soon make us a Squad of Colonels and Generals!

I like the idea... but I think it needs a little more work if you want to make it RPGesque! :) When I first gave my pilots "stats" it was purely for the peoples benefit to know what they've been trained in, not to show any sort of level other than "good" or "really good". I think that it's a little too RPGesque, and as Zak eloquently (and ironically considering his initial stance) puts it... stats and rules will ruin the plot.

Also, technically, if they're a Rogue Pilot, they should ALL have SfPl+, as the Rogues are (primarily) the best trained and most lethal starfighter squadron in the galaxy!

(Incidentally, Face needs 12 points minimum, 15 ideally!)


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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:34 am 
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I think that one thing that needs to be kept in mind here is that these skill listings can really only be "solid" for reasonably undeveloped characters, like new additions. Face has all his skills primarily because that's where the story's taken him... to say that he can only have 9 points, due to a generalized system, is to say that we have to invalidate where the story has been. I don't think that's really where we are here. I think this system is more for the generation of new characters, and general guidelines for their advancement, so that they don't get too much better as the plot goes on.

Also, for things like "Wp", I'd say that this is a generalized list, and that specific weapon talents should probably be listed in a plotpedia article or other form of "real" bio. This is an at-a-glance list; if it matters that Face is a pistol master versus a rifles master, I should be looking more in-depth in the first place. I would have a separate field for "Jedi-ing", that would probably include both Force ability and lightsaber combat skill (since they classically go hand-in-hand), but specific skill callouts for every weapon class is a little too in-depth for what I perceive as the purpose of this list.

I do like the idea, but I don't think that it should be clung to at the expense of all else. Also, Face, remember that this is a very discrete list. The difference between "Wp" and "Wp+" is probably very, very significant, as is the difference between no "Wp" sticker at all and a "Wp" sticker. Dru has a quick draw, and is handy with a blaster when he needs to be, which is more than some could say, but he's a far cry from earning a "Wp" sticker. Going from "Wp" to "Wp+", in my mind, is going from a journeyman marksman to a weapons expert. There's a real difference there, and plenty of room in between the levels for growth within ranks.

That said, for less-developed characters, and non-author characters, it couldn't hurt to trim back a star or two, especially in the case of some of the low-ranking Wraiths who have double stars on multiple skills. I wouldn't really be a proponent of trimming Face down, but someone like Rrowv might not hurt.

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:42 pm 
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Aye, what Dru says is correct. It's main purpose is to ensure that new characters don't stack up more skills than their character's experience dictates. For instance, a new, talented recruit fresh out of the academy wouldn't have as many skills as an older, experienced pilot who's just transferred from another squadron or defected from the Empire (oh, and note that new characters transferring in with experience can still only transfer in as high as a Lieutenant). It's also a way for us to take a look at our own characters and inactive characters to figure out which skills we haven't ended up using and which ones we've developed in the Plot since the last roster update.

If I understand RPG systems correctly, characters have to earn new points through quests and such. Those points award a character with new skills.

The big difference with our skill set is we don't earn points. Our skill set rather denotes the skills our characters have developed throughout the plot. If a character has developed too many skills for their ranking, and it's been a while since their last promotion, then perhaps it's time for that character to either shed a skill that never got used in the Plot or its time for that character to be promoted. Promotions are entirely based on a characters actions in the plot, so contact me if you think your character has gained enough skills to move up into the next ranking and accept the greater responsibilities that their character will be given in a higher rank. A higher ranking doesn't mean you're a better or more valued writer. Rather, it's merely the level you want to develop your character up to in order to write stories involving a character of that ranking. I, for instance, often enjoy writing about characters of low ranking because it's tiring to write about a general all the time. He doesn't really get to be "one of the guys."

Skills based on rank have the dual purpose of making sure a lower-ranking pilot doesn't attached to many skills to themselves at once without developing them in the Plot and making sure that pilots who do gain a lot of skills in the Plot move up in the ranks.

As before, the rank of general is off-limits to anyone but our current generals. Our disproportionately high number of generals and colonels is a result of our long-ago ranking system based on the activity of the actual RS members (nothing to do with the Plot characters themselves). But they still get to keep their ranks.

The Weapons skill has been changed to specify small arms (regular blasters) and non-blasters (lightsabers, for instance).

The reason I didn't add a Jedi skill is that I believe our current array of Jedi skills in the squadron boast skills in existing categories. For example, the Force makes Tyria a very good medic (Md+) and lightsaber wielder (Wp+). If we had a Jedi who was proficient in and regularly used Force choking, mind manipulation, jumping, etc., there would need to be a separate skill set.

As for SfPl+, everyone in the squadron automatically gets a free SfPl. Since they are all Rogues, that level of SfPl is actually SfPl++, thus making SfPl+ be SfPl+++. But for the sake of simplicity, I use the additional SfPl+ designation to specify Rogues who are the top pilots in the squadron, as opposed to those who are merely incredibly good but split their skills in other directions, like ground pounding. I like to specify who'd be a better choice to lead flying missions and who'd be a better choice to lead ground pounding missions.

This skill set only applies to the Rogues right now. It's up to the other squadron leaders if they want to adopt it or not.

The purpose of this method of doing skills isn't to hamper a pilot's ability to gain new skills as their character progresses but rather to keep a newer character from progressing too fast, too soon and to serve as a visual aid for Plot writers to know how to best use other people's characters.

If a set number of skills doesn't make sense for higher ranks, an alternative method is for skill restrictions to apply only to lower rankings, like Captain and below. Let me know what you think about that or any other variations on this theme that you have in mind. This method in its current form can still use a lot of tweaking, as did our former method of doing skill sets.

The main purpose of this is to put in place a set of fun guidelines for our characters. If we all come to hate it, we can go back to our older method of skills not assigned by rank and work on fixing that. I don't want this new system to be an unwanted burden.

Sorry for being very vague in my initial description of this skill set method. T'was a late night brainstorm.

Oh, and since the roster is on Plotpedia now, you can make your own tweaks.


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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:07 pm 
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I think, too, that we should think twice before calling this a set of "rules" or "restrictions." I don't think that's really the goal here. For existing characters and development within the plot, I think Face's point is a good one. It's too restrictive, too discrete, and too generalized. Further, characters just develop differently, some skills are weighted more than others when it comes to promotions, and so on down the line. A points system like this, in my mind, would be, at best, a sort of sanity check for an author while planning things out. Once a character is "in the plot," the plot itself should drive their development.

I think a system like this is best used for a guideline in creating new characters, especially non-authored characters. If I want to use a generic Captain for half a plot, I can look at the chart, slap 6 skills on him, and *bam*, 30 seconds later I have a baseline for a character, I know what he can do, and I can be off and running with the actual writing. Too, we can use it for helping to shepherd new authors and their characters in to the plot. Again, it's just a guideline... if Face was bringing Face in for the first time, for example, he'd be a low rank, but he has extensive nonmilitary training to apply, so limiting him to "three points" cripples his concept of his character, and exception would have to be made.

You all know I'm an incorrigible numbers nut, so a system like this has a lot of appeal to me in a lot of ways. That said, I will readily admit that it is too limiting to be used outside of an informal capacity such as that I just described.

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:55 pm 
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Ah, you were thinking of them more as new character guidelines, then, to keep the young'uns in check. And after than monumental speech I made, too. Pfft :P :wink:

Any suggestions, then, on improving on our current skill set?


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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:42 pm 
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The only statement I have to add personally to this current line of conversation is that we don't get "young'uns". Most of the people that have come in at least with me have a good working knowledge of Star Wars. I would say the other aspect is that the skills system does denote a certain number element to something. NPC structure should be developed from quick character elements for the story instead of of done to the point that if we need a generic baseline stat for an NPC, obviously we've got charts and we might as well resort to running dice in the plot.

I know this is hypercritical, but take it from me, I've seen whole story lines, whole organized chats fall apart over stupid little details that come up the moment a stat system is introduced. As I understood the plot before, there has never been a need for this kind of system. Our influx of new players, writers and such isn't so great to need a modified system, as we're all writing characters that in their own right are over the top and too powerful. That's half the fun, and certification doesn't have to come with it.

Spent two years working with you guys, and I see now how great the plot is WITHOUT the need for any sort of ranking or denotation. It's just going to add a lot of a lot of mindless stat details that are either going to be overlooked, or complained about.

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:21 pm 
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Valid points. More opinions?


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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:01 pm 
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I pretty much agree with Zak. The new system rather complicates things unnecessarily.


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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Roster
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:43 pm 
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After tweaking, the skill stats point system has been coalesced into a set of guidelines (not rules) for new characters assigning skills. For existing characters, it can serve as a way for them to measure their character up (if they so desire) against other characters to see where their level of skills stands to aid them in dropping unused skills and developing new skills all through the organic growth of the Plot not dictated by any sort of system. A separate wiki article for this is forthcoming.

Please use the Rogue Roster to update your character's skills in accordance with their current skills in the Plot so we can accurately write each other's characters. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Roster
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:41 am 
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Hmmm, looking over the roster I realise I haven't been paying enough attention to the plot while reading. What happened to Hayden and Leefa?

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Roster
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:35 am 
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Leefa died in the Battle for Bormari Part II, and Hayden died...fairly recently also - I'm pretty sure earlier in 15.


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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Roster
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:41 am 
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Thanks Tyria. 8)

I did wonder.

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Roster
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:33 am 
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Hayden died in 15f or so, following the Yub Yub epic. He was shot by a speederbike laser, and died of the injury.

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 Post subject: Re: Rogue Roster
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:19 pm 
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Updated the Rogue roster to show an availability following Taz's demise. Theran Rel is now appropriately shown as a pending assignment.

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